Pierre de Penne saw heretics many times in many places, and ate and drank with them often, and sent them bread, fruits, and other things. He believed them to be good people and that they in their sect would be saved. He ate bread blessed by them. He said also that the mercenary Loubaix was as likely to go to heaven as Martin of Tours, and he had said this to the priests who bought wax in honour of St. Martin. He believed that no one could swear an oath or kill without sin. Item, he didn't believe in any of the sacraments of the Church and believed that the heretical church was the only church, that no one in the Roman Church will be saved, but that everyone was saved in the heretical church. Item, he said that God does not destroy what he has made, nor would it disappear. He said also that he adored heretics, and that previously he had denied being put under oath or question. Item, he said that he himself had preached heresies to other people many times.